Over the years I’ve worked with some really incredible radio on air talent who struggled with podcasting. Sometimes that’s because they look down on podcasting and don’t respect the platform. But, often it’s because throughout their radio career they’ve been coached to think their job was to create amazing shows where every break is radio gold. Setting aside the fact that doing that is virtually impossible without a massive support team and structure, it’s also not what works anymore. In the digital age we’re currently in, the real value is in creating lots of individual amazing moments. That’s the key for radio talent trying to transition to podcasting. Here’s why and how we can all get better at doing that.
Love or hate Joe Rogan, he cracked a code that most successful podcasters now follow. He cares more about creating great moments than a great show. Every week he sits down with someone who’s famous, smart, funny, talented, interesting or a combination of those. He does so in a chill, laid back, non-judgy environment that leads people to relax and let their guard down. Then he talks to them about whatever he, or they, want to talk about for two to four hours. His show averages 2 hours and 39 minutes and episodes rarely come in under 2 hours. He also famously doesn’t edit much, if anything, in most episodes. He leaves it all in. It certainly helps that he has a wide range of interests so he’s somewhat knowledgeable on a lot of things and that he’s funny. But, Joe’s real secret sauce is that the vibe he creates, and the length he talks, leads to a handful of amazing moments in virtually every show. Those moments get clipped and spread across the internet by his team, other creators, fans of his show and people who hate watch his show through a process referred to as clip farming. Theo Von uses the same playbook he learned after going on Joe Rogan’s show.
Am I saying every podcast should be 2 hours and 39 minutes? No, I am not. But, now that YouTube is the number one platform for consuming podcasts video has to be part of the equation. Because of that and changing consumption habits, podcasts can be hours long or as short as a couple minutes. Personally, I like a 5-minute minimum because that gives most AI tools enough to work with and pull at least a couple reels for social. But, I do think there’s value in creating that Rogan-like vibe by getting away from typical radio studios and talking longer than all of us are accustomed to and either editing out the boring parts (which AI can also help with) or leaving it all in and focusing on the overall metrics. One of reasons 90% of new podcasts fail, and 70% stop before producing even 10 episodes, is because they get discouraged by the numbers their long-form shows are getting. Which is sad because they’re focusing on the wrong metric. When starting a podcast the most important thing is the amount of organic traction the short form clips are getting. Then, watching which clips work organically, and on which platforms, and putting a few bucks behind those over-indexing clips. Ultimately, that’s what will eventually drive up the long-form numbers but either way it’s getting our likeness, voice and brand in front of significantly more people. Why does short form work better than long-form initially? Because new people are considerably more likely to give a new show 30 seconds of their time than 30 minutes.
Another show I’ve been really impressed with lately is Diary of a CEO. Hosted by English entrepreneur and investor Steven Bartlett. He clearly puts a lot of prep time and thought into each episode, leading to great interviews that produce lots of amazing moments. Recently he posted about how they’ve recorded a few episodes that they didn’t put out because they weren’t up to their standard. My guess is they made that call after seeing that the long-form content didn’t produce many viral-worthy short-form clips because they know how important those are. It also underscores a valuable digital lesson, we don’t have to put out everything we record. Knowing that allows us to push the envelope a bit and experiment in ways we wouldn’t on live radio.
One more key to creating amazing moments on team shows is to choose a co-host that we riff well with so we’re not relying solely on the chemistry we have with guests who are often strangers.
What do you think is more important, creating amazing shows or amazing moments? Comment below or email met at Andy@RadioStationConsultant.com.
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